Re: [OSS] OpenOffice 1.0.2... vs "LAMPS" Promotion

Andi, all,

At 14:49 14.02.2003 +0000, AD Marshall wrote:
-------------------------
>GS Chuong, JC, Stefan, et al,
>
>Stefan said:
>>as far as I can tell, there is agreement, that we should first aim at
>>Public SW (Free SW and Open Source Software) for the Windows platform, before
>>pushing for a Free OS (like Linux).
>
>I agree that Freed & Open-source (FOs) end-user applications are needed to
>introduce FOs systems and propogate FOs and IP awareness further into
>VietNam's
>Information Systems (IS) user population, including business managers, esp.
>IS purchasing decision makers, first on Win32, and localized is better, but...

What distinguishes this list (at least as I see it) from LUG or many other
lists is, that it is not about Public SW for its own sake, i.e. it is not
about promoting Public SW, but about using it for two over-all purposes
("Main Targets"), as I stated in my proposal:
1) Counter a possible copyright enforcement push with all its many negative
consequences
2) Using it for the development of Vietnam

This would conform also with the list members: Policy decision makers,
development people, and executors.

>FOs end-user apps are still lagging the propriety apps quite a bit

It is getting closer and closer.
OO Impress lags PowerPoint, but which ordinary end-user needs it?
OO Draw is said to be very good - and there is no alternative in MS Office
OO Writer should match Word for ordinary users (?)
OO Calc is said to lag behind Excel, but should also be enough for
end-users (?).

>and getting end-users, who just want to get their work done with minimal
>technical learning, to switch is going to be very difficult and slow,

I doubt that.
First, don't forget, that there are permanently /new/ users, who don't have
to switch, if they start e.g. with OO.
Second, I want to see how "difficult" it is for a user to switch from an
English program to a Vietnamese one, if the Vietnamese one works very similar.
Third, of course there needs to be "guiding actions", like coverage in the
press, maybe a TV course about switching, etc.
Fourth, don't forget, it is IMHO in the first place not about switching
users, but about /enabling/ a switch.... See my proposal.

>at least until Vietnam can afford to pay IPR enforcement officers a few
>times the value of the proprietary systems whose IPRs the enforcers are
>already legally responsible to defend and prosecute violators.

See above.

>Further, end-users will not do the localization or customization. It will
>be IS
>people. And, so far, there are not even enough IS people fluent enough in
>English,
>Systems Development & Project Management procedures and FOs systems to support
>local customization of even the FOs systems already in place in VietNam.

???
Mandrake is out in Vietnamese, including a Vietnamese Gnome.
CMC distributes RedHat 7.1 with a Vietnamese KDE.
CMC did also the Vietnamese translation of OpenOffice 1.0.1 for Linux.
A Vietnamese translation of Mozilla is said to be out within this year.
I don't know how much localization will be included in VietKey Linux....

>This is definitely not to say that FOs end-user applications shouldn't be
>promoted, just that they may not be the best part of FOs to focus budget
>priorities on.

I don't think, that at this stage there is /much/ money needed.
Little amounts can do a lot, if needed.
A translation of OpenOffice is said to be possible within 2 weeks. And if
it is 2 months. How much money is this in Vietnam? Now, since OO 1.0.1 is
already translated for Linux, the additional amount (Windows, and latest
version 1.0.2) should not take that much more time....

Also, some freeware is easy to translate:
Opera needs a single long text file with the localized strings. Any
translator with no IT knowledge at all (i.e. no CVS system, no compilation,
building, etc.) can do that.
What is needed, is a good IT dictionary with the typical SW terms. Anybody
knows one?

>Linux is The FOs product which has the 3M-MA, mass market, maturity

... but only for servers ... maturity for desktop ?

<cut>

>But there are a more practical, technological and economics arguments for
>giving secondary priority to FOs end-user applications, like Open Office (but
>also Evolution, GIMP, Konqueror, Mozilla and many others).
>
>Even outside VietNam the first and primary applications of FOs systems are
>infrastructural and this is where FOs systems naturally excel most since FOs
>systems are built by and for developers first, end-users later.

But those who operate servers etc. know surely already about Public SW, and
in fact many use them already. I do not see any need to "promote" it in
this area.

>Just my opinion, but if i had a limited budget

Nobody knows the budget right now, but it could be considerable, if we come
up with clear projects.

> for FOs systems propogation,

as said, it is IMHO not about propagation, but about tackling issues.

> i'd
>be following the biggest trend in global FOs systems adaptation, that of LAMPS
>(Linux-Apache-MySQL/Masquerade-PPP/PHP/Perl/Python/PostGreSQL-Samba/Squid)
>which
>basically forms a complete LAN, WAN, Intranet &/or ISP infrastructure,
>including
>billing and content management where needed. For security, add gpg, iptables,
>nmap, snort and tripwire (aside from the logs and last that are built in to
>Linux by default).
>
>But LAMPS is for IS people, not end-users (or policy makers or even most IS-
>purchase decision makers). Only IS people will learn LAMPS -- and if they
>don't
>we're still stuck with FOs end-user apps on a still unaffordable Win32 IS
>infrastructure.

The real issue here is IMO about the discrepancy between awareness ("we
should do this, and in fact might even want to do it"), and the abilities
("we have no knowledge/experience"). Technicians/Engineers in IT companies
(i.e. those which provide infrastructure solutions) need re-training so
that they really can deploy LAMPS systems. University training needs to be
improved to include that.

Universities say, they lack qualified lectors/tutors. I am not aware about
any activities to re-train the technicians in IT companies.

As you may remember, I was looking to get University contacts in Vietnam,
and contacts from appropriate groups outside in order to look what can be
done in this regard.

>And, finally, LAMPS will have to be learned in English, just to keep up with
>patches, massive documentation changes and the vast majority of the trade
>press.

Agreed.
But English language knowledge is not enough. People need the skills &
mentality to communicate with others around the globe - Vietnamese and
non-Vietnamese - to get and provide support. My impression is, that this
needs also special fostering....

Cheers,
Stefan

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