Fwd: Second OSS Conference - Follow Up

Dear All,

FYI a mail, which I sent out some weeks ago to a few people, which might
give some proposals on what to do here. It mentions also the issue of "Free
Software" and "Open Source Software"....

Rgds.
Stefan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 1:39 PM
Subject: Second OSS Conference - Follow Up

> Dear All,
>
> some of us attended the whole, or part of the 2-day-conference which ended
> yesterday:
> Lars, Vern, Rob, James, Thanh, Jean Christophe, myself.
>
> This mail is to inform those who could not - or only in part - attend, as
> well as to put forward a proposal to address some shortcomings.
>
>
>
> I had the honour to be invited to the dinner with the Vice Minister
> yesterday evening.
> During that dinner, I had a chance to talk with Mr. Do Xuan Tho, Chairman
> of VAIP (Vietnam Association for Information Processing) and Mr. Dang Minh
> Tuan, Author of VietKey and President (or Director?) of the VietKey Group,
> which is about to release "VietKey Linux 2.4" - an "One CD Vietnamese Linux
> Distribution".
>
> Short outcomes of that dinner talks (besides a filled stomach ;) :
> I asked Mr. Tho about when VAIP would start to offer not only courses on
> Windows and MS Office, but also on Linux and OpenOffice. He replied, that
> VAIP would indeed be in the best position to offer that, because they have
> around 100 Training Centres in the whole country, and that they would
> consider it. Hearing that, the HP and SCO representatives, who were sitting
> next to me, offered (i.e. they started before being asked to!) to look into
> possibilities to help VAIP to setup training courses for Linux, etc..... :))
>
> I asked Tuan, why he does not post the source code of his VietKey keyboard
> driver.
> His reply: His VietKey is "Free Software", but not "Open Source Software".
> I asked him, how he would translate this "Free Software" to Vietnamese, and
> he said "Phan Mem Mien Phi". I replied, that this is not "Free Software",
> but "Freeware". "Free Software" would be "Phan Mem Thu Do". He did not like
> this differentiation and said, that he could not earn money, if he would
> post the Source Code. :((
>
> Regarding his "VietKey Linux": During the Conference he said, that he would
> make the source available for interested people, but neither host it on a
> website, nor include it on the Distribution-CD. I told him, that according
> to the GPL this was fine, as long as the user gets the CD with the binaries
> directly from him. But if a user buys the CD-ROM from a shop, then the shop
> has also to offer the source. It is not ok, that the shop would refer the
> user to Mr. Tuan to get it. The GPL states, that the source has to be
> available *at the same place* where the binaries are obtained from. He
> replied, that he had visited RedFlag HQ in China, and that RedFlag, as well
> as Hancom (Korea), also did not make the source for all of its
> distributions available. He said, that he could not make money from it, if
> he would make all the source code freely available. !!!!
>
> So far for the dinner talks.
>
> For those who did not - or only in part - participate at the meeting:
> I mentioned during the plenary session at the end (which was also attended
> by the Vice Minister) the case of Long's UniKey (without mentioning the
> product or name): That a Vietnamese in Europe had written a small
> application, released it as true OSS, ie. with the source downloadable from
> the Internet, and that two Vietnamese companies had taken that source,
> changed logo and name and sold it for much money to two government
> projects. It could well be, that both companies were not even really aware
> that they were breaking the rules. I said, that the same could happen to a
> student in Vietnam. Both of them would be very discouraged by such
> behaviour and neither of them would have any means to enforce their
> copyleft right, i.e. that derivatives of their work have to be kept open
> with all the consequences.
>
>
> I also mentioned, that OSS is not only about obtaining the knowledge alone,
> but about the spirit of sharing and contributing. Right now virtually
> nobody in Vietnam (except some very few individuals like Long or Thanh) are
> contributing to the community. Nearly everybody here considers OSS as "Free
> to take, close it and re-sell it, without any need to contribute back".
> Example of the consequences: I have since more than a half year an open bug
> in Mozilla, concerning the rendering of Vietnamese characters.
> Understandably, nobody of the foreign contributors are interested in this
> subject, and due to the nature of this project (every programer picks just
> what bug he likes to fix), this bug will probably stay unresolved for a
> long time to come... unless there would be e.g. one or a few Vietnamese
> students, who would be interested (and able) to participate a bit in the
> Mozilla development and take on that task ....
>
> So far to the meeting.
>
> While the MoST and others can address some issues about OSS in Vietnam,
> there are others which they can't - or only slowly and/or with difficulties.
>
> My proposal therefore - and the reason for this mail - is to setup a
> website with the following
>
> ****************************************************************
> (Draft) Mission:
>
> To use the Internet for the promotion of the development and use of FS/OSS
> in Vietnam for the benefit of the Vietnamese people, businesses,
> organizations, and the Government
>
> by
> (1) providing information about the various FS/OSS licenses
> (2) announcing Vietnamese FS/OSS projects looking for participation
> (3) listing Software of Vietnamese companies which fulfill
> the OSS requirements
> (4) listing Vietnamese individuals who contribute to international FS/OSS
> projects
> ****************************************************************
> pls. feel free to add, comment.....
>
> The Website should be bilingual, Vietnamese and English.
> I have the means to host it - no cost for anybody involved.
>
>
> Reasons/Justification/Tasks:
> =============================
> (1) The content and meaning of the various licenses, as well as the
> difference between "Free Software" and "Open Source Software" seems not to
> be considered at all until now. Nearly nobody has an understanding of the
> true and full meaning of "Free Software" and "Open Source".
> What we should do:
> (1.1) provide links to existing translations of FS/OSS licenses
> (1.2) encourage (or even look for a bit of money for the) translation of
> the most important still untranslated OSS licenses
> (1.3) look for and translate articles which illustrate and explain the
> differences between the various FS/OSS licenses - and the
differences to
> licenses like for Freeware, etc.
>
> (2) I assume, that there are students willing to contribute, but don't know
> where and how. There might well be also people who are willing to start
> something, and are looking for partners. On the other side there are things
> left undone (like the Mozilla bug mentioned above) because nobody knows...
> The website would list local and international projects calling for
> input/participation.
>
> (3) Several good FS/OSS products get until now very little attention,
> and/or are being "stolen" (like it happened to UniKey), while others ride
> on the "OSS" wave and try to position themselves as OSS champions, while in
> fact producing everything else, but not OSS (see e.g. "Vietnamese" Linux
> Distributions). Since the official ways (i.e. through the courts) will not
> work, we could use "public praise and shame" to get the message across.
> What we should do:
> (3.1) compile and keep updated a list of Software, which claims to be
> "Free Software" or OSS, or which breaks the rules by using
> e.g. GPL'ed source and then close it.
> (3.2) state on the site, whether the product really adheres to the license.
> Means: a list with
> - Name of Product (e.g. "UniKey", "VietKey", "CMC Linux")
> - Producer (e.g. "P.K.Long", "VKGroup", "CMC")
> - Claimed license (e.g. "GPL", "Free Software", "GPL")
> - Follows license (e.g. "yes", "no", "???")
> - Comments (e.g. - , no source available , - )
>
> (4) To encourage students and other individuals to contribute, we need a
> means to "promote" them, possibly with a "list of praise".
> Means a list with
> - Name (e.g. "T.M.Thanh")
> - Project (e.g. "Translation of Mandrake Linux and Gnome")
> - Link to Project (e.g. "www......")
>
>
> Why "we" should do it
> ======================
> A Linux Group is not 100% appropriate, since there is also FS/OSS which runs
> on Windows.
> An official site (e.g. by the MoST) is not possible, since it would easily
> make them look not neutral anymore, especially in regard to point (3).
> There is no adequate FS/OSS organisation in Vietnam until now.
> ISOC-VN (although it would be a prime candidate) has right now neither
> legal status nor sufficient contributors to do it alone.
>
> I propose therefore a joint effort by
> - VietLUG
> - VCLUG (if it will ever materialize)
> - VOSSA (Vietnam Open Source Software Association - if there will be one
> at some time)
> - ISOC-VN
> - UNDP (to promote it)
> - interested companies and individuals (probably the main contributors)
> While I hope that many of those listed will contribute, we can - if any of
> the contributors does not like to get associated with another one - make it
> look like a completely independent "own thing".
>
> All: What do you think about it? Would you be willing to contribute a bit,
> in setting it up (i.e. shaping it), as well as maintaining it (by
> submitting infos)?
>
> Quy: The VietLUG has AFAIK already a list of Vietnamese Linux SW. Would
> people in VietLUG be willing to participate? VietLUG would definitely be an
> integral part of the whole effort. Pls. distribute the proposal as you see
> it appropriate.
>
> I am looking forward to your comments, commitments, etc.
>
> Cheers,
> Stefan
>
>

To facilitate co-ordination regarding the introduction of OSS SW in Vietnam

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